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3 Responses to “Zisk interviews SoundExchange’s John Simson for Royaltyweek”
I’m carrying this over from the Velvet Rope, so that people who aren’t interested in how well Mrs. McCartney dances might pick up on this discussion somewhere else.
Brian,
I think you let Simson off the hook a couple times. You set up him up nicely on the new counsel coming from the RIAA (replacing the old counsel who came from the RIAA) as perpetuating the image that they are still an RIAA front, but he slipped away.
The same thing happened when you suggested that direct negotiation of licenses would permit labels to evade the 50/50 split and direct payment to artists. He was very careful to remind you of the FoM Policy Summit when it was “made clear to him” that payment had to be direct to artists, but he neglected to tell you that when the RIAA made the midnight amendments to the enabling legislation that mandated payments through the label, he, and SoundExchange, were strangely silent when the shit hit the fan.
Am I wrong, or is there a creeping tone of arrogance slipping into Simson’s statements since the rate hike was announced. I don’t hear any more of that “Golly, we’re as surprised at anyone that we got everything we wished for.” Instead, he’s taking the position that the ruling was undeniable and inevitable.
At least he didn’t give you the line about “everybody cried doom in 2002 and it didn’t happen.” I guess someone reminded him that Congress had to intervene that time and he and his RIAA controllers didn’t get the pay per play system then.
I think you should follow up by talking to those “artist representatives” on the SoundExchange board and find out if they have a clue what is being done with their approval. It’s funny how Simson never mentions that there isn’t an actual artist on there.
This was an interview, not an inquisition. We had 20 minutes while John was driving to the airport, with his cell threatening to drop the whole way.The aim wasn’t trying to land a fish, nor ambush SX or put them in an antagonistic situation. As someone who’s a big fan of business models enabled through reduced friction from either a compulsory or voluntary blanket license, it’s important for this to work. 50% to the musicians for songs they’ve signed away and 100% for songs they haven’t is huge. I’m here to try to help effectuate a solution. Unfortunately, many folks are going to have to go through difficult times, but after enough pressure is applied to SoundExchange, it’s likely that different classes of webcasters will settle out.
There are multiple battles here, and unfortunately, Internet Radio (and it’s great promotional value) is being used as a proxy to establish a rate for music in general. Don’t y’all feel that my getting John to reject the obvious promotional value was high quality reporting? And I thought the RIAA connection spoke for itself, with my being the first to report the new hire. I’m pretty psyched about Royaltyweek. Royalties are an interesting and important revenue stream, and it’s great to see a publication covering the topic. But truthfully, as someone who’s been known to bring friends from the Library of Congress to EFF parties and vice versa , I’d rather amplify the good side of what John (and the other hard working folks at SoundExchange are doing. You know that John’s an extremely nice guy, and I don’t think SoundExchange could’ve gotten this far balancing the multiple priorities with anyone else as Executive Director. In regards to a creeping tone of arrogance, I think he’s under a lot of pressure, and feels the need to posture as he’s under legitimate fear of the likelihood that he’s about to be crushed into settlement by the webcasters ability to geotarget email campaigns by Congressional district. I also like to lay out fact patterns and let folks fill in the blanks.
At SXSW, I brought Matthew Dunn of MusicIP and Rob Kaye of the MusicBrainz Project over to talk authentication databases with Barrie Kessler of SoundExchange. Brought Rusty Hodge of SomaFM over there later as well.
My belief is that there will be settlements by the various webcast group.
The big guys will pay the rates and monetize every way they can, or negotiate direct solutions thus slashing their costs by cutting out the musicians.
The Public Radio folks will likely be able to reach a solution, but who needs all the stress?
The big small guys like SomaFM, RadioParadise and RadioIo will lileky find a negotiated solutions.
It’s my opinion sites like Live365 with numerous channels and folks who broadcast using sites like these are in the greatest danger of being shut down.
The ruling is currently being revisited. One option is a negotiated agreement whereby SoundExchange and individual classes of webcasters negotiate a solution such as percentage of revenue, which would allow folks to reach a solution while allowing SoundExchange and the RIAA labels to keep their victory of a high per play rate. Another option which appears to be moving along simultaneously is a rehearing by the CRB, and this has been granted as of yesterday. http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/032007crb/view
A third option is legislative intervention, but my hunch is that more negotiation and rehearings need to take place before there’s a good shot of this happening as laws are in place and legislators tend to like to let issues shake themselves out on their own if processess are in place. As far as intent, I have my opinions, but am more likely to attract folks to a solution using honey rather than vinegar.
This was an interview, not an inquisition.
——————————————————————————–
To be frank, Brian, it wasn’t even an interview. It was more of a press release. You just let Simson go where he wanted.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
We had 20 minutes while John was driving to the airport, with his cell threatening to drop the whole way.
——————————————————————————–
And you probably would have lost the connection if you pressed him, too.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The aim wasn’t trying to land a fish, nor ambush SX or put them in an antagonistic situation.
——————————————————————————–
Then what WAS the aim? To prove you could get John Simson to talk to you for your blog?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
As someone who’s a big fan of business models enabled through reduced friction from either a compulsory or voluntary blanket license, it’s important for this to work.
——————————————————————————–
I don’t see how you promote that goal by pretending there aren’t substantive problems with SX and then letting Simson say stuff to you that you KNOW isn’t accurate, which you then publish and promote without a word of disclaimer. (And I know you know it. You’re sharper than that.)
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
50% to the musicians for songs they’ve signed away and 100% for songs they haven’t is huge.
——————————————————————————–
And you seriously think that if SX gets to negotiate licenses with webcasters that they are going to keep those splits without the legislative mandate? You seriously believe there won’t be an attempt to re-route those payments through the labels?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I’m here to try to help effectuate a solution.
——————————————————————————–
Everybody is. It’s just that the SX solution is going to screw a lot of artists before its over.
There will be those who never get heard because there are fewer Internet stations to play their music, and there are those who get heard who aren’t going to get paid because their labels are using SX fees to recoup against royalty debits, and there are those aren’t going to get paid because the negotiated licenses screw them on the split.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
Unfortunately, many folks are going to have to go through difficult times, but after enough pressure is applied to SoundExchange, it’s likely that different classes of webcasters will settle out.
——————————————————————————–
And you think the webcasters are going into those negotations with any strength? All SX has to do is wait them out and send them the bills for 2006.
This is going to be a replay of classic label “negotiations” on royalty accounts, Brian! Do you think that any organization that has Steve Marks on the Board of Directors is going to treat artists fairly?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
There are multiple battles here, and unfortunately, Internet Radio (and it’s great promotional value) is being used as a proxy to establish a rate for music in general. Don’t y’all feel that my getting John to reject the obvious promotional value was high quality reporting?
——————————————————————————–
No. He’s been peddling the same crap elsewhere for a week.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
And I thought the RIAA connection spoke for itself, with my being the first to report the new hire.
——————————————————————————–
I think the real story is why prior counsel left, and without so much as a thank you. Care to employ your newshound skills to that one?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I’m pretty psyched about Royaltyweek. Royalties are an interesting and important revenue stream, and it’s great to see a publication covering the topic.
——————————————————————————–
Not if it is going to toe the company line. SX can always take out another ad in Billboard and cut you out completely.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
But truthfully, as someone who’s been known to bring friends from the Library of Congress to EFF parties and vice versa , I’d rather amplify the good side of what John (and the other hard working folks at SoundExchange are doing.
——————————————————————————-
They’ve hired a publicist for that. You’re just acting like a groupie.
If by “good” things, you mean the way they were able to not find more than 7,500 artists so they could take at least $500,000 of artist money into their own account, you have to explain how that was “good.”
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
You know that John’s an extremely nice guy
——————————————————————————–
I used to think so, but he lied to my face, he lied to others, and then made public statements that were patently untrue.
Simson may be nice guy, but he’s a liar. I have no need for him, and I certainly don’t trust anything he says.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I don’t think SoundExchange could’ve gotten this far balancing the multiple priorities with anyone else as Executive Director.
——————————————————————————–
Maybe that’s because people who get to ask him questions about what he and SX are doing continue to give him a pass.
And you know, as far as SX “getting this far,” what have they really accomplished?
1. A rate structure that guts Internet radio.
2. A monopoly on negotiating those rates.
Don’t expect me to join in the standing ovation. Neither of these things helps artists to get paid.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
In regards to a creeping tone of arrogance, I think he’s under a lot of pressure, and feels the need to posture as he’s under legitimate fear of the likelihood that he’s about to be crushed into settlement by the webcasters ability to geotarget email campaigns by Congressional district.
——————————————————————————–
Wow!
Let’s parse that one, Brian.
Who is pressuring John Simson? It certainly isn’t his board.
And you’re saying is that he is posturing or posing? Does that mean we aren’t seeing the “true” Simson?
And SX is going to get “crushed?”
Oh, please!
If the terms change because Congress gets involved, as it probably should, NOBODY gets “crushed.” SX is a freaking non-profit, Brian, and the artists and labels are going to get paid nicely as the market continues to grow.
And I will weep no tears for SX if Congress intervenes. The money will continue to roll in (especially now that they are a monopoly) and they will continue not to find thousands of artists and get to keep all that extra money. John Simson will continue to be very well compensated for being a nice guy who lays out the company line.
And if the webcasters successfully “geotarget” Congress, all that means is that their lobbying and backroom manuevers are better than the RIAA’s. It’s about time they lost a round.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I also like to lay out fact patterns and let folks fill in the blanks.
——————————————————————————–
Well, you certainly left a lot of blanks, and I am going to question how many “facts” Simson fed you.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
At SXSW, I brought Matthew Dunn of MusicIP and Rob Kaye of the MusicBrainz Project over to talk authentication databases with Barrie Kessler of SoundExchange. Brought Rusty Hodge of SomaFM over there later as well.
——————————————————————————–
Ever ask yourself why those conversations hadn’t taken place yet?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
My belief is that there will be settlements by the various webcast group.
The big guys will pay the rates and monetize every way they can, or negotiate direct solutions thus slashing their costs by cutting out the musicians.
——————————————————————————-
And this is a good thing?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The Public Radio folks will likely be able to reach a solution, but who needs all the stress?
——————————————————————————–
It will probably require them to limit access to members, which is stupid.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The big small guys like SomaFM, RadioParadise and RadioIo will lileky find a negotiated solutions.
——————————————————————————–
Assure me that the settlement won’t cut the artist share and that direct payment will still be made (to those artists that SX can find, anyway).
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
It’s my opinion sites like Live365 with numerous channels and folks who broadcast using sites like these are in the greatest danger of being shut down.
——————————————————————————–
And if anyone doesn’t consider this to be an unnecessary loss to the way we find and hear music, they are misinformed.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I have my opinions, but am more likely to attract folks to a solution using honey rather than vinegar.
——————————————————————————–
You just shouldn’t put either in the Kool-Aid that Simson gave you.
SX remains an entity that is answerable to no one except the RIAA. John Simson used you, and you missed a chance to actually make news as well as report it.
Frankly, between you and the FoMC representation on the SX Board, I have to start wondering if the real Future of Music involves most artists getting paid on Internet broadcasts at all.
March 20th, 2007 at 10:52 am
I’m carrying this over from the Velvet Rope, so that people who aren’t interested in how well Mrs. McCartney dances might pick up on this discussion somewhere else.
Brian,
I think you let Simson off the hook a couple times. You set up him up nicely on the new counsel coming from the RIAA (replacing the old counsel who came from the RIAA) as perpetuating the image that they are still an RIAA front, but he slipped away.
The same thing happened when you suggested that direct negotiation of licenses would permit labels to evade the 50/50 split and direct payment to artists. He was very careful to remind you of the FoM Policy Summit when it was “made clear to him” that payment had to be direct to artists, but he neglected to tell you that when the RIAA made the midnight amendments to the enabling legislation that mandated payments through the label, he, and SoundExchange, were strangely silent when the shit hit the fan.
Am I wrong, or is there a creeping tone of arrogance slipping into Simson’s statements since the rate hike was announced. I don’t hear any more of that “Golly, we’re as surprised at anyone that we got everything we wished for.” Instead, he’s taking the position that the ruling was undeniable and inevitable.
At least he didn’t give you the line about “everybody cried doom in 2002 and it didn’t happen.” I guess someone reminded him that Congress had to intervene that time and he and his RIAA controllers didn’t get the pay per play system then.
I think you should follow up by talking to those “artist representatives” on the SoundExchange board and find out if they have a clue what is being done with their approval. It’s funny how Simson never mentions that there isn’t an actual artist on there.
Fred
March 21st, 2007 at 9:13 am
This was an interview, not an inquisition. We had 20 minutes while John was driving to the airport, with his cell threatening to drop the whole way.The aim wasn’t trying to land a fish, nor ambush SX or put them in an antagonistic situation. As someone who’s a big fan of business models enabled through reduced friction from either a compulsory or voluntary blanket license, it’s important for this to work. 50% to the musicians for songs they’ve signed away and 100% for songs they haven’t is huge. I’m here to try to help effectuate a solution. Unfortunately, many folks are going to have to go through difficult times, but after enough pressure is applied to SoundExchange, it’s likely that different classes of webcasters will settle out.
There are multiple battles here, and unfortunately, Internet Radio (and it’s great promotional value) is being used as a proxy to establish a rate for music in general. Don’t y’all feel that my getting John to reject the obvious promotional value was high quality reporting?
And I thought the RIAA connection spoke for itself, with my being the first to report the new hire. I’m pretty psyched about Royaltyweek. Royalties are an interesting and important revenue stream, and it’s great to see a publication covering the topic. But truthfully, as someone who’s been known to bring friends from the Library of Congress to EFF parties and vice versa 
, I’d rather amplify the good side of what John (and the other hard working folks at SoundExchange are doing. You know that John’s an extremely nice guy, and I don’t think SoundExchange could’ve gotten this far balancing the multiple priorities with anyone else as Executive Director. In regards to a creeping tone of arrogance, I think he’s under a lot of pressure, and feels the need to posture as he’s under legitimate fear of the likelihood that he’s about to be crushed into settlement by the webcasters ability to geotarget email campaigns by Congressional district. I also like to lay out fact patterns and let folks fill in the blanks.
At SXSW, I brought Matthew Dunn of MusicIP and Rob Kaye of the MusicBrainz Project over to talk authentication databases with Barrie Kessler of SoundExchange. Brought Rusty Hodge of SomaFM over there later as well.
My belief is that there will be settlements by the various webcast group.
The big guys will pay the rates and monetize every way they can, or negotiate direct solutions thus slashing their costs by cutting out the musicians.
The Public Radio folks will likely be able to reach a solution, but who needs all the stress?
The big small guys like SomaFM, RadioParadise and RadioIo will lileky find a negotiated solutions.
It’s my opinion sites like Live365 with numerous channels and folks who broadcast using sites like these are in the greatest danger of being shut down.
The ruling is currently being revisited. One option is a negotiated agreement whereby SoundExchange and individual classes of webcasters negotiate a solution such as percentage of revenue, which would allow folks to reach a solution while allowing SoundExchange and the RIAA labels to keep their victory of a high per play rate. Another option which appears to be moving along simultaneously is a rehearing by the CRB, and this has been granted as of yesterday. http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/032007crb/view
A third option is legislative intervention, but my hunch is that more negotiation and rehearings need to take place before there’s a good shot of this happening as laws are in place and legislators tend to like to let issues shake themselves out on their own if processess are in place. As far as intent, I have my opinions, but am more likely to attract folks to a solution using honey rather than vinegar.
March 21st, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Fred,
This was an interview, not an inquisition.
——————————————————————————–
To be frank, Brian, it wasn’t even an interview. It was more of a press release. You just let Simson go where he wanted.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
We had 20 minutes while John was driving to the airport, with his cell threatening to drop the whole way.
——————————————————————————–
And you probably would have lost the connection if you pressed him, too.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The aim wasn’t trying to land a fish, nor ambush SX or put them in an antagonistic situation.
——————————————————————————–
Then what WAS the aim? To prove you could get John Simson to talk to you for your blog?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
As someone who’s a big fan of business models enabled through reduced friction from either a compulsory or voluntary blanket license, it’s important for this to work.
——————————————————————————–
I don’t see how you promote that goal by pretending there aren’t substantive problems with SX and then letting Simson say stuff to you that you KNOW isn’t accurate, which you then publish and promote without a word of disclaimer. (And I know you know it. You’re sharper than that.)
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
50% to the musicians for songs they’ve signed away and 100% for songs they haven’t is huge.
——————————————————————————–
And you seriously think that if SX gets to negotiate licenses with webcasters that they are going to keep those splits without the legislative mandate? You seriously believe there won’t be an attempt to re-route those payments through the labels?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I’m here to try to help effectuate a solution.
——————————————————————————–
Everybody is. It’s just that the SX solution is going to screw a lot of artists before its over.
There will be those who never get heard because there are fewer Internet stations to play their music, and there are those who get heard who aren’t going to get paid because their labels are using SX fees to recoup against royalty debits, and there are those aren’t going to get paid because the negotiated licenses screw them on the split.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
Unfortunately, many folks are going to have to go through difficult times, but after enough pressure is applied to SoundExchange, it’s likely that different classes of webcasters will settle out.
——————————————————————————–
And you think the webcasters are going into those negotations with any strength? All SX has to do is wait them out and send them the bills for 2006.
This is going to be a replay of classic label “negotiations” on royalty accounts, Brian! Do you think that any organization that has Steve Marks on the Board of Directors is going to treat artists fairly?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
There are multiple battles here, and unfortunately, Internet Radio (and it’s great promotional value) is being used as a proxy to establish a rate for music in general. Don’t y’all feel that my getting John to reject the obvious promotional value was high quality reporting?
——————————————————————————–
No. He’s been peddling the same crap elsewhere for a week.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
And I thought the RIAA connection spoke for itself, with my being the first to report the new hire.
——————————————————————————–
I think the real story is why prior counsel left, and without so much as a thank you. Care to employ your newshound skills to that one?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I’m pretty psyched about Royaltyweek. Royalties are an interesting and important revenue stream, and it’s great to see a publication covering the topic.
——————————————————————————–
Not if it is going to toe the company line. SX can always take out another ad in Billboard and cut you out completely.
Quote:
, I’d rather amplify the good side of what John (and the other hard working folks at SoundExchange are doing.
——————————————————————————–
But truthfully, as someone who’s been known to bring friends from the Library of Congress to EFF parties and vice versa
——————————————————————————-
They’ve hired a publicist for that. You’re just acting like a groupie.
If by “good” things, you mean the way they were able to not find more than 7,500 artists so they could take at least $500,000 of artist money into their own account, you have to explain how that was “good.”
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
You know that John’s an extremely nice guy
——————————————————————————–
I used to think so, but he lied to my face, he lied to others, and then made public statements that were patently untrue.
Simson may be nice guy, but he’s a liar. I have no need for him, and I certainly don’t trust anything he says.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I don’t think SoundExchange could’ve gotten this far balancing the multiple priorities with anyone else as Executive Director.
——————————————————————————–
Maybe that’s because people who get to ask him questions about what he and SX are doing continue to give him a pass.
And you know, as far as SX “getting this far,” what have they really accomplished?
1. A rate structure that guts Internet radio.
2. A monopoly on negotiating those rates.
Don’t expect me to join in the standing ovation. Neither of these things helps artists to get paid.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
In regards to a creeping tone of arrogance, I think he’s under a lot of pressure, and feels the need to posture as he’s under legitimate fear of the likelihood that he’s about to be crushed into settlement by the webcasters ability to geotarget email campaigns by Congressional district.
——————————————————————————–
Wow!
Let’s parse that one, Brian.
Who is pressuring John Simson? It certainly isn’t his board.
And you’re saying is that he is posturing or posing? Does that mean we aren’t seeing the “true” Simson?
And SX is going to get “crushed?”
Oh, please!
If the terms change because Congress gets involved, as it probably should, NOBODY gets “crushed.” SX is a freaking non-profit, Brian, and the artists and labels are going to get paid nicely as the market continues to grow.
And I will weep no tears for SX if Congress intervenes. The money will continue to roll in (especially now that they are a monopoly) and they will continue not to find thousands of artists and get to keep all that extra money. John Simson will continue to be very well compensated for being a nice guy who lays out the company line.
And if the webcasters successfully “geotarget” Congress, all that means is that their lobbying and backroom manuevers are better than the RIAA’s. It’s about time they lost a round.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I also like to lay out fact patterns and let folks fill in the blanks.
——————————————————————————–
Well, you certainly left a lot of blanks, and I am going to question how many “facts” Simson fed you.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
At SXSW, I brought Matthew Dunn of MusicIP and Rob Kaye of the MusicBrainz Project over to talk authentication databases with Barrie Kessler of SoundExchange. Brought Rusty Hodge of SomaFM over there later as well.
——————————————————————————–
Ever ask yourself why those conversations hadn’t taken place yet?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
My belief is that there will be settlements by the various webcast group.
The big guys will pay the rates and monetize every way they can, or negotiate direct solutions thus slashing their costs by cutting out the musicians.
——————————————————————————-
And this is a good thing?
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The Public Radio folks will likely be able to reach a solution, but who needs all the stress?
——————————————————————————–
It will probably require them to limit access to members, which is stupid.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
The big small guys like SomaFM, RadioParadise and RadioIo will lileky find a negotiated solutions.
——————————————————————————–
Assure me that the settlement won’t cut the artist share and that direct payment will still be made (to those artists that SX can find, anyway).
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
It’s my opinion sites like Live365 with numerous channels and folks who broadcast using sites like these are in the greatest danger of being shut down.
——————————————————————————–
And if anyone doesn’t consider this to be an unnecessary loss to the way we find and hear music, they are misinformed.
Quote:
——————————————————————————–
I have my opinions, but am more likely to attract folks to a solution using honey rather than vinegar.
——————————————————————————–
You just shouldn’t put either in the Kool-Aid that Simson gave you.
SX remains an entity that is answerable to no one except the RIAA. John Simson used you, and you missed a chance to actually make news as well as report it.
Frankly, between you and the FoMC representation on the SX Board, I have to start wondering if the real Future of Music involves most artists getting paid on Internet broadcasts at all.